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Author Topic: Goats and Sheep together?  (Read 4955 times)

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2011, 10:33:14 PM »
Well, if it's only the copper issue, then I'll just take out the lick blocks. 

Offline 2cats2dogs2donkeys+

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2011, 07:50:06 AM »
We used to run half a dozen goats in the ewes and there was never really a problem in a decent sized paddock. They just don't integrate and seem to do their own thing. I do remember the goats used to herd them like dogs if I was moving them to another paddock, which helped sometimes and didn't other times...


Just don't put goats in a heavily grazed area where sheep have been (where there is lots of sheep poo) - they can get meningitis and die.




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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2011, 09:10:55 AM »
How long do you have to rest an area before you can let goats go into it?  It's not a paddock, it's a barn that the sheep were in.

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #23 on: October 12, 2011, 09:14:41 PM »
OOooh, I wouldn't do that. See, it's all about the poo left by the sheepies. We're talking days here, possibly more. I would suggest you consult your local vet.


Sorry




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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #24 on: October 13, 2011, 08:45:04 AM »
That's fine, I'll rake out all the sheep poo and let it rest for a while.  The sheep weren't in the whole barn, so there's still some room left for the goats to go into.   

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #25 on: October 13, 2011, 07:13:36 PM »
hi 2c2d: i am confused about this link between goats, sheep and meningitis.  my curious mind wants to know what the mechanism is by which a goat could contract the disease through contact with sheep faeces.  is it possible we are talking about q fever? 
in normal circumstances, as i understand it, bacterial infections are generally passed on through the transfer of fluids or open wounds etc and you would know if the host animal was carrying a bacterial infection.  as i read it you are saying sheep are passive carriers of meningitis and this is then transferred via contact with faeces?  i have not heard of this before and want to know more.  also, is this an issue from australia or just nz??  i am going to research this further but wondered what you know about it.  cheers. MH

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #26 on: October 13, 2011, 08:18:51 PM »
on more reflection, i am thinking that the issue of goats grazing over an area that has been heavily grazed by sheep is more one of worms than of other disease.  as sheep and goats are susceptible to to the same worms that would definitely make sense and you would be advised to rotate paddocks or run cattle/horses over that paddock rather than running goats over the same ground.  personally i do not see an issue with them coming into contact with the faeces although of course mucking out the shed periodically would be usual animal husbandry.... however i am happy to be wrong :cheesy:


another interesting point about this discussion is the idea that you can't run bucks with ewes or rams with does.  This is an interesting excerpt from Wikipedia on the issue (I have not included the footnotes but have put a link to the article if you want to see them):


A sheep–goat hybrid is the hybrid offspring of a sheep and a goat. Although sheep and goats seem similar and can be mated, they belong to different genera. Sheep belong to the genus Ovis and have 54 chromosomes, while goats belong to the genusCapra and have 60 chromosomes. The offspring of a sheep-goat pairing is generally stillborn. Despite widespread shared pasturing of goats and sheep, hybrids are poorly attested, indicating the genetic distance between the two species. They are not to be confused with geep, which are chimerae.
[/size]At the Botswana Ministry of Agriculture in 2000, a male sheep impregnated a female goat resulting in a live offspring. This hybrid had 57 chromosomes, intermediate between sheep (54) and goats (60) and was intermediate between the two parent species in type. It had a coarse outer coat, a woolly inner coat, long goat-like legs and a heavy sheep-like body. Although infertile, the hybrid had a very active libido, mounting both ewes and does even when they were not in heat. This earned the hybrid the nameBemya.". He was castrated when he was 10 months old. [1]
A male sheep impregnated a female goat in New Zealand resulting in a mixed litter of kids and a female sheep-goat hybrid with 57 chromosomes.[2] The hybrid was subsequently shown to be fertile when mated with a ram. [3] In France natural mating of a doe with a ram produced a female hybrid carrying 57 chromosomes. This animal backcrossed in the veterinary college of Nantes to a ram delivered a stillborn and a living male offspring with 54 chromosomes. [4]
In 1969, Australian farmer Dick Lanyon, who farmed near Melbourne, Australia, kept a buck goat among his sheep to scare off foxes during the lambing season. In September of the same year, he claimed to have dozens of ‘lambs’ which were sheep-goat hybrids. The goat was locked up while scientists examined the supposed hybrids. As no more was heard of this case, it is believed that the lambs were pure-bred sheep.
[/size]There is a long-standing belief in sheep–goat hybrids, which is presumably due to the animals' resemblance to each other. Some primitive varieties of sheep may be misidentified as goats. In Darwinism – An Exposition Of The Theory Of Natural Selection With Some Of Its Applications (1889), Alfred Russel Wallace wrote:>[...] the following statement of Mr. Low: "It has been long known to shepherds, though questioned by naturalists, that the progeny of the cross between the sheep and goat is fertile. Breeds of this mixed race are numerous in the north of Europe." Nothing appears to be known of such hybrids either in Scandinavia or in Italy; but Professor Giglioli of Florence has kindly given me some useful references to works in which they are described. The following extract from his letter is very interesting: "I need not tell you that there being such hybrids is now generally accepted as a fact. Buffon (Supplements, tom. iii. p. 7, 1756) obtained one such hybrid in 1751 and eight in 1752. Sanson (La Culture, vol. vi. p. 372, 1865) mentions a case observed in the Vosges, France. Geoff. St. Hilaire (Hist. Nat. Gén. des reg. org., vol. iii. p. 163) was the first to mention, I believe, that in different parts of South America the ram is more usually crossed with the she-goat than the sheep with the he-goat. The well-known 'pellones' of Chile are produced by the second and third generation of such hybrids (Gay, 'Hist, de Chile,' vol. i. p. 466,Agriculture, 1862). Hybrids bred from goat and sheep are called 'chabin' in French, and 'cabruno' in Spanish. In Chile such hybrids are called 'carneros lanudos'; their breeding inter se appears to be not always successful, and often the original cross has to be recommenced to obtain the proportion of three-eighths of he-goat and five-eighths of sheep, or of three-eighths of ram and five-eighths of she-goat; such being the reputed best hybrids."Supposedly, most sheep–goat hybrids die as embryos. Hybrid male mammals are often sterile due to a phenomenon called Haldane's rule. The Haldane phenomenon may apply even when the parent species have the same number of chromosomes, as in most cat-species hybrids. It sometimes does not apply when the species chromosome number is different, as in wild horse (chromosome number = 66) with domestic horse (chromosome number = 64) hybrids. Hybrid female fertility tends to decrease with increasing divergence in chromosome similarity between parent species. Presumably, this is due to mismatch problems during meiosis and the resulting production of eggs with unbalanced genetic complements.
Source, Wikipedia  see HERE

:lipsrsealed: [/size]now i have gone off on another tangent researching the history of sheep and goats as they are so similar.  might publish a synopsis of results if anyone is interested

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Re: Goats and Sheep together?
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2011, 10:19:45 AM »
I asked our local LHPA vet about running sheep and goats together.  Here's what he said:
I have not ever heard of meningitis in goats as a result of running with sheep. Goats do seem to be susceptible to Listeriosis which is a bacterial cause of meningitis/encephalitis. The bug is basically all over the place, in soil, can occur in silage (especially high pH) and in faeces. To my knowledge there is no higher risk if sheep and goats are grazed together.
Certainly worms are an issue in goats grazed with sheep, especially where the goats are forced to graze rather than browse .

 

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